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Leadbelly

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The 2023 Auto-Wildcard Race
« on: January 25, 2022, 19:09 »
I'm still of the opinion that this "race" shouldn't be going ahead this year and thus gently encourage/force Alpecin to go WT via the 2020-22 league. It's a bit silly that they have it better than the WT teams and even with a injured MVDP they'll no doubt win this again.

However Raul Banqueri thinks it's going ahead and he also thinks that relegated teams from the WT will be eligible for this competition.

https://twitter.com/raulbanqueri/status/1486042167416352768

If correct, maybe things aren't so bleak for Lotto after all.

Even with their poor season in 2021 they still finished 1500+ points ahead of Total and obviously even further ahead of B&B and Uno-X.
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: The 2023 Auto-Wildcard Race
    « Reply #1 on: February 08, 2022, 18:28 »
    https://twitter.com/raulbanqueri/status/1490961478840889348



    The league table, assuming that Alpecin have asked for a WT spot.

    Lotto and Cofidis are currently the teams missing out, but of course that could change over the coming months.
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: The 2023 Auto-Wildcard Race
    « Reply #2 on: February 21, 2022, 09:24 »
    https://twitter.com/raulbanqueri/status/1495671077476999168



    Lotto increase their lead in this competition. Even if they can't surmount their deficit in the the 3-yr event, they have a second bite at the cherry here.
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: The 2023 Auto-Wildcard Race
    « Reply #3 on: March 17, 2022, 08:21 »
    https://twitter.com/raulbanqueri/status/1503394844097617924



    IPT could very easily be behind Total if they fell into the relegation zone any time this season.
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    Re: The 2023 Auto-Wildcard Race
    « Reply #4 on: March 17, 2022, 08:37 »
    IPT could very easily be behind Total if they fell into the relegation zone any time this season.

    but they can still buy the UCI if there are any issues. right?! ;)
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    Leadbelly

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    Re: The 2023 Auto-Wildcard Race
    « Reply #5 on: April 25, 2022, 16:26 »
    https://twitter.com/raulbanqueri/status/1518593468309852161



    After a great start to the season Uno-X seem to have stalled recently which has allowed IPT to move into the "silver ticket" position.
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: The 2023 Auto-Wildcard Race
    « Reply #6 on: July 26, 2022, 08:16 »
    https://twitter.com/raulbanqueri/status/1551503055069257728



    IPT have moved a lot closer to Total since the last update.
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: The 2023 Auto-Wildcard Race
    « Reply #7 on: September 09, 2022, 12:50 »
    https://twitter.com/raulbanqueri/status/1568154013970927616

    Only two avenues of salvation here for IPT.

    Either they score 700pts more than Total in the rest of the season which, while the French team does have a lighter calendar, still looks unlikely, or Lotto manages to overhaul BEX or EF and they score more than them.

    Not sure I can see it happening.
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: The 2023 Auto-Wildcard Race
    « Reply #8 on: November 23, 2022, 10:14 »
    This might as well go in here as anywhere else..

    https://twitter.com/FranReyesF/status/1595340106746953728

    The idea is that to be eligible for a GT wildcard you have to be of a certain level in the UCI rankings. Top 50 in 2023, 40 in '24 and 30 in '25.

    Not so popular with all the Pro Teams as you can imagine, but it's at least being discussed at the meeting of the Professional Cycling Council along with other alternatives (25 teams in GTs).
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: The 2023 Auto-Wildcard Race
    « Reply #9 on: November 23, 2022, 11:28 »
    The idea is that to be eligible for a GT wildcard you have to be of a certain level in the UCI rankings. Top 50 in 2023, 40 in '24 and 30 in '25.
    Hm.
    Not a bad idea as such, but taking it to its logical consequence, they would have to allow Conti teams in the top-50/40/30 to apply for GT wildcards, too!
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    Leadbelly

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    Re: The 2023 Auto-Wildcard Race
    « Reply #10 on: November 23, 2022, 16:02 »
    You can see both sides of the argument.

    The yearly auto-wildcard system already gives the best Pro teams a chance to earn their wildcard. Why give them another bite of the cherry?

    If you're finishing down in the 60s behind Tashkent, Panama and Devo DSM (to pick just three), are you really of a standard to be in a GT?

    Some of the WT teams send rubbish selections to the lesser GTs.

    More often than not, the rubbish WT teams still do better (not always though).

    The current scoring could do with more than a tweak or two. Too many points for Continental/National Championships of a very low level which gives some wacky placements in the ranking.

    Would Bingoal and Sport Vlaanderen even be interested in riding a GT?

    The ranking still favours teams and countries which have a lot of 1-day races, and naturally teams from those countries with buoyant calendars.

    It's blatantly anti-Spanish, or is it just making a level playing field for everyone no matter if the team is American, Swiss, Spanish or Norwegian?

    etc etc etc
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: The 2023 Auto-Wildcard Race
    « Reply #11 on: December 23, 2022, 15:13 »
    It's the last working Friday afternoon of the year, so of course there's a UCI press release:
    https://www.uci.org/pressrelease/modification-of-points-scale-for-mens-events-in-uci-international-road/2YPy6zPPse6w8c5s9J0dKd

    1) new point scales, giving more points for GTs, Monuments, individual stages, Worlds, and Olympics
    2) World Ranking will now include points from 20 riders per team (instead of 10)
    3) Israel-Premier Tech receive automatic invitations to not only the WT one-day races, but the WT stage races (except GTs) in 2023, too!
    Quote
    This modification is aimed at maintaining stability within teams, and is limited to one transition year – i.e. only for 2023, coming as it does after three years of significant upheaval due to the global pandemic.

    1 & 2 I absolutely agree with.

    3, however, is changing the goalposts after everybody's left the playing field, showered, got dressed, got home, and went on holiday!
    This really does impact both on races like Catalunya, Itzulia, Suisse, Pologne etc. (which will now have one less wildcard to distribute) and on teams (which will now have one less spot at those races to compete for). And it's announced after everybody has already set their rosters for 2023.

    I imagine the thinking behind the previous rule was "there's no way a WT team, even if relegated, won't be among the two best-scoring teams compared with the ProTeams and thus get automatic invites to all WT races in their post-relegation season" ... but as Raúl Banqueri's rankings show, several WT teams 'managed' to do exactly that: IPT are just the ones that got relegated, but Movistar, BikeExchange-Jayco, and EF Education-Easypost would have been in the same predicament.
    And instead of saying "sorry guys, them's the rules", the UCI simply backtracks on itself (something they have a lot of experience in) and essentially draft a "Lex Sylvan Adams", presumably to make sure he won't sue their pants off. This is even more blatant due to the fact that this rule only counts for 2023, see the quote above. They could simply have said "any relegated WT team gets automatic invites to WT one-day and stage races (except GTs) in the season after relegation", but no, they had to make it extra specific.
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: The 2023 Auto-Wildcard Race
    « Reply #12 on: December 23, 2022, 18:21 »
    1) new point scales, giving more points for GTs, Monuments, individual stages, Worlds, and Olympics

    Looks good (unless they mess up the scaling).

    Quote
    2) World Ranking will now include points from 20 riders per team (instead of 10)

    I haven't checked yet, but I wonder if Raul has done a backdated recalculation of the scores for 20-22 (and 22 on it's own) to see what would have happened in the alternate (20 rider) universe. Ineos to be back on top of the charts?

    I don't think it will make too much difference going forward. Having a 30 man team though, won't do any harm.

    #3 is a bit of a unnecessary sop to IPT, but without the GT invites it's probably not that game breaking. No doubt there wouldn't have been a TDU invite without it and maybe the Swiss races too as they're usually fairly stingy with invites, but I'm sure they would have got asked to virtually everything else anyway.
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  • t-72

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    Re: The 2023 Auto-Wildcard Race
    « Reply #13 on: December 24, 2022, 08:47 »
    DOH  :angry 
     Those new point scales are in effect coming quite close to locking the World Tour. With increased points scoring in WT stage races (also at stage level) that are available only for WT Teams and a few PT teams from selected countries that happen to host a 3-week race, good luck to ambitious PT teams that doesn´t have a solid Italo-Franco-Iberian footing.
    Their only way to get into the World Tour now is to be a World Tour team.

    This includes of course #unox but also #hpm  (using 2022 team names) #bingoal
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    Re: The 2023 Auto-Wildcard Race
    « Reply #14 on: December 24, 2022, 08:48 »
    This really does impact both on races like Catalunya, Itzulia, Suisse, Pologne etc. (which will now have one less wildcard to distribute) and on teams (which will now have one less spot at those races to compete for). And it's announced after everybody has already set their rosters for 2023.

    I would need to double check, but from memory, I don't think any recent WT stage race has made use of all available wild cards?! Reason for not doing though may be financially, of course, so being forced to invite #israel can still impact others, but I'm not so sure it'll make too much of a difference. Partly also because I think they would do most races anyway, even without this rule.
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: The 2023 Auto-Wildcard Race
    « Reply #15 on: December 24, 2022, 09:23 »
    DOH  :angry 
     Those new point scales are in effect coming quite close to locking the World Tour. With increased points scoring in WT stage races (also at stage level) that are available only for WT Teams and a few PT teams from selected countries that happen to host a 3-week race, good luck to ambitious PT teams that doesn´t have a solid Italo-Franco-Iberian footing.
    Their only way to get into the World Tour now is to be a World Tour team.

    This includes of course #unox but also #hpm  (using 2022 team names) #bingoal

    So the points system should have stayed as it was? with the involved teams targeting the smaller races ahead of the big ones? like Lotto (who may now change their mind) skipping the Giro for the better scoring opportunities in Hongrie and 4JD and whatever other races they talked about?

    I think the scaling definitely needed changing.

    Uno-X just got to make sure they finish in the top-2 or 3 of the PCT teams this year, which is very plausible, and then they can have greater guaranteed access to the big races themselves.
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  • t-72

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    Re: The 2023 Auto-Wildcard Race
    « Reply #16 on: December 24, 2022, 09:49 »
    So the points system should have stayed as it was? with the involved teams targeting the smaller races ahead of the big ones? like Lotto (who may now change their mind) skipping the Giro for the better scoring opportunities in Hongrie and 4JD and whatever other races they talked about?

    Yes, I think the points scale should support racing outside of the big stage races because they are simply not the most fun races to watch and does not offer the best quality of racing - except for the Tour de France.

    Giro and Vuelta stage wins in general are the cheapest you can get at top level today, once the GC is established there are <10 racers, even less,  going for the stage win with a realistic chance to actually win it. A much larger % of the peloton is involved in trying to win the race, or at least, get a good result, whereas in the 3-week races they go into conservation mode, waiting for another stage, another day, another week,  another year. More points for Giro and Vuelta stage wins is like handing out more points to the bus driver for arriving at the finish line in front of the passengers.
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: The 2023 Auto-Wildcard Race
    « Reply #17 on: December 24, 2022, 10:05 »
    Raul has done his magic.

    https://twitter.com/raulbanqueri/status/1606587588994863104







    Not too many changes here as I thought, but if things are close between teams obviously any alteration of the rules can produce a swapping of positions.
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